Managers with the Most Wins and Their Playing Careers Part II: Decades

Recently, we looked at how the group of managers with 900 or more wins broke down globally. This piece attempts to ascertain how the attributes of managers with 900 or more wins changed or not over time.

1980s — Average playing career: 11.5 seasons — War: 20

Mgr	Played in MLB	WAR	W	L	W-L%	Plyof App	WSwon	Player/Manager
Mike Scioscia	as player	23.7	1066	878	0.548	6	1
Ozzie Guillen	as player	15.9	678	617	0.524	2	1
Ron Gardenhire	as player	0.5	866	755	0.534	6	0
Jim Tracy	as player	-0.7	792	782	0.503	2	0
Terry Francona	as player	-3.7	1029	915	0.529	5	2

Not surprisingly only two managers with 900 or more wins (Terry Francona and Mike Scioscia) started their playing careers after 1980. Of course, we could probably add Ron Gardenhire, Jim Tracy and Ozzie Guillen (I’ve done so in the chart, but not the averages) to this list as they’ll likely earn the requisite wins to join the club.

Oddly, Francona and Scioscia have the same amount of games managed and, combined, their managerial record is 2095-1793. If you add the three other likely managers, this group has a 4,431-3,947. Pretty impressive. Together they have four World Series titles.

Of course, their playing careers weren’t all that successful. Tracy played just two years and Gardenhire played in just five (although he managed 0.5 WAR). Francona was a pretty poor player for 10 seasons somehow. Scioscia leads the way in WAR (with 23.7), with Guillen coming in second (15.9).

While we don’t have a ton of data, it does appear that there’s no relation whatsoever in recent history between being a great player and becoming a good manager. From the minors, Ryne Sandberg weeps.

1970s — Average playing career: 9.8 seasons — War: 70.4

Mgr	Played in MLB	WAR	W	L	W-L%	Plyof App	WSwon	Player/Manager
Mike Hargrove	as player	30	1188	1173	0.503	5	0
Phil Garner	as player	26.9	985	1054	0.483	2	0
Art Howe	as player	11.9	1129	1137	0.498	3	0
Bruce Bochy	as player	2	1360	1376	0.497	5	1
Tom Kelly	as player	-0.4	1140	1244	0.478	2	2

The players who began their careers in 1970 and became 900+ win managers (combined record of 5,802-5,984) weren’t as successful as the 1980s group. Together the ‘70s PTMs have three World Series, but only one (Mike Hargrove) has a .500+ winning percentage and he sits at .503. That said, the others are reasonably close with Tom Kelly being the furthest away from even at .478. It’s interesting in a clearly-doesn’t-mean-anything-sort-of-way that the highest WAR and best win% match-up and so on. Poor Tom Kelly.

This group fared a bit better when it came to their playing careers, though. Hargrove and Phil Garner put together 25+ WAR careers and played for 12 and 16 years respectively. Art Howe played for 11 years and accumulated 11.9 WAR. While Bochy wasn’t very good (2 WAR), he did play for nine seasons. Tom Kelly is the black sheep of the group, again, playing just one season.

1960s — Average playing career: 11.7 seasons — War: 173.1

Mgr	Played in MLB	WAR	W	L	W-L%	Plyof App	WSwon	Player/Manager
Joe Torre	as player	55.6	2326	1997	0.538	15	4	plyr/mgr: 1977
Jim Fregosi	as player	46.1	1028	1095	0.484	2	0
Dusty Baker	as player	34.8	1484	1367	0.521	5	0
Davey Johnson	as player	24.5	1188	931	0.561	5	1
Lou Piniella	as player	11.4	1835	1713	0.517	7	1
Bobby Cox	as player	1	2504	2001	0.556	16	1
Bobby Valentine	as player	0.8	1117	1072	0.51	2	0
Jimy Williams	as player	-0.1	910	790	0.535	2	0
Tony LaRussa	as player	-1	2728	2365	0.536	14	3

A whopping nine players began their careers in 1960 and went on to manage ball clubs to 900+ wins. The group was pretty successful: 15,120-13,331, with 10 World Series (thank you Joe Torre and Tony LaRussa).

This group also brings the first potential Hall of Fame player in Torre and two other well above average players in Jim Fregosi and Dusty Baker. In addition, Davey Johnson had a fine and long career, while Lou Piniella played for 18 seasons. There were some duds as players: LaRussa (-1 WAR), Jimy Williams (-0.1 WAR), Bobby Cox (1 WAR) and Bobby Valentine (0.8 WAR). Still, the group averaged nearly 12 seasons as major leaguers.

1950s — Average playing career: 10.4 seasons — War: 169

Mgr	Played in MLB	WAR	W	L	W-L%	Plyof App	WSwon	Player/Manager
Frank Robinson HOF	as player	107.4	1065	1176	0.475	0	0	plyr/mgr: 1975-1976
Felipe Alou	as player	39.4	1033	1021	0.503	1	0
Bill Virdon	as player	15.6	995	921	0.519	3	0
Billy Martin	as player	3.7	1253	1013	0.553	5	1
Dick Williams HOF	as player	3.2	1571	1451	0.52	5	2
Whitey Herzog HOF	as player	2.6	1281	1125	0.532	6	1
Chuck Tanner	as player	-0.4	1352	1381	0.495	1	1
Tom Lasorda HOF	as player	-1.1	1599	1439	0.526	7	2
Sparky Anderson HOF	as player	-1.4	2194	1834	0.545	7	3

The nine players who began their careers in the 1950s won 10 World Series and posted a 12,343-11,361 record. Frank Robinson is really the only poor manager in the group. Chuck Tanner, who also had a sub-.500 winning percentage, at least won a World Series and was just barely under .500 (1,352-1,381).

That said, bringing Frank Robinson into the fold gives us the first no-doubt Hall of Famer who went on to win 900+ games as a manager. However, the rest of the group is pretty inauspicious. Felipe Alou had the second longest career and second most WAR. However, aside from him and potentially Bill Virdon, it’s a pedestrian collection.

1940s — Average playing career: 11.2 seasons — War: 89.7

Mgr	Played in MLB	WAR	W	L	W-L%	Plyof App	WSwon	Player/Manager
Red Schoendienst HOF	as player	40.4	1041	955	0.522	2	1
Al Dark	as player	38.6	994	954	0.51	3	1
Bill Rigney	as player	7.4	1239	1321	0.484	1	0
Danny Murtaugh	as player	3.6	1115	950	0.54	5	2
Ralph Houk	as player	0	1619	1531	0.514	3	2
Gene Mauch	as player	-0.3	1902	2037	0.483	2	0

The six managers who began their careers in the 1940s had winning percentages between .483-.540. Together, they went 7,910-7,748 and won six World Series. Danny Murtaugh seems to have been the most successful (.540 with two World Series) but he had the third shortest tenure and only fourth most wins.

That said, Bill Rigney was clearly the worst, as his average yearly finish was fifth place. Oddly, this group’s average yearly finish was between 3.3 and 5.2, whereas seven of the nine managers from the 1950s group averaged in the 2s.

This is the first set of players who all had at least eight seasons of pro-ball. That said, only Red Schoendienst and Al Dark had careers of any note. Altogether, they averaged nearly 15 WAR, but that is entirely the product of Schoendienst (40.4) and Dark (38.6)

1930s — Average playing career: 8 seasons — War: 56.3

Mgr	Played in MLB	WAR	W	L	W-L%	Plyof App	WSwon	Player/Manager
Lou Boudreau HOF	as player	56	1162	1224	0.487	1	1	plyr/mgr: 1942-1952
Paul Richards	as player	0.3	923	901	0.506	0	0
Walter Alston HOF	as player	0	2040	1613	0.558	7	4

Only Walter Alston, who won four World Series and was nearly 430 games over .500, can be considered a top notch manager. Lou Boudreau had a below .500 record and his team’s average finish was barely higher than fifth place. Paul Richards wasn’t much better than .500, as he was 923-901.

If Alston carried the group managerially, Boudreau carried them in terms of playing careers. Boudreau played for 15 years and accumulated 56 WAR. Combined, Richards and Alston played for nine seasons and accumulated 0.3 WAR.

For all intents and purposes, Richards played from 1932-1935. He came back from 1943-1946 as baseball was devoid of talent due to the War. Oddly, Richards might have been a better player during the second stretch: he hit .231/.313/.310 with 1.2 WAR while during the first part of his career he hit .216/.285/.281 and was a -0.9 WAR player. Richards was a no-hit catcher who could lead a pitching staff. He is credited with turning Dutch Leonard’s career around by suggesting he learn the knuckleball.

Meanwhile, Alston appeared in just one game, got one at bat and struck out on three pitches (reportedly one strike was a long foul ball). He was subbing in for Johnny Mize who was run out of the game. He wasn’t much better with the glove as he made an error in his two fielding chances.

1920s — Average playing career: 16 seasons — War: 88.2

Mgr	Played in MLB	WAR	W	L	W-L%	Plyof App	WSwon	Player/Manager
Joe Cronin HOF	as player	62.5	1236	1055	0.54	2	0	plyr/mgr: 1933-1945
Al Lopez HOF	as player	13.5	1410	1004	0.584	2	0
Chuck Dressen	as player	8.6	1008	973	0.509	2	0
Leo Durocher HOF	as player	3.6	2008	1709	0.54	3	1	plyr/mgr: 1939-1945

This is an odd bunch. Combined, the four managed teams to a 5,662-4,741 record, yet just one World Series victory. The managerial star of the group, Al Lopez, won five pennants and his team’s average finish was 2.4. Leo Durocher claimed the World Series and won 3,739 games. This is the first group with significant player-managers, as, combined, Durocher and Joe Cronin player-managed for nearly 20 seasons.

While the group averaged 16 seasons in their playing careers, Cronin was the only real successful player. Lopez was a solid catcher who caught the most games in baseball history until Gary Carter broke his record, but was just a 13.5 WAR guy over 19 seasons. Durocher similarly hung around without doing much (3.6 WAR).

1910s — Average playing career: 16.7 seasons — War: 181.6

Mgr	Played in MLB	WAR	W	L	W-L%	Plyof App	WSwon	Player/Manager
Frankie Frisch HOF	as player	74.8	1138	1078	0.514	1	1	plyr/mgr: 1933-1937
Jimmy Dykes	as player	28.1	1406	1541	0.477	0	0	plyr/mgr: 1934-1939
Billy Southworth HOF	as player	20.3	1044	704	0.597	4	2	plyr/mgr: 1929
Casey Stengel HOF	as player	18.7	1905	1842	0.508	10	7
Steve O’Neill	as player	17.4	1040	821	0.559	1	1
Bucky Harris HOF	as player	12.8	2158	2219	0.493	3	2	plyr/mgr: 1924-1931
Charlie Grimm	as player	9.5	1287	1067	0.547	3	0	plyr/mgr: 1932-1936

The older we get, the more player-managers appear: five of the seven managers in this group were player-managers. Together, they won 13 World Series and had a 9,978-9,272, aided mostly by Billy Southworth (1,044-704), Charlie Grimm (1,287-1,067) and Steve O’Neil (1,040-821). While Frankie Frisch and Casey Stengel were fine managers, they didn’t have the year-in, year-out regular season success of the others.

As managers, these guys were tremendous, as players, not so much. While they averaged nearly 17 MLB seasons, Frisch was, really, the only accomplished player. Southworth and Jimmy Dykes were fine regulars but did nothing of incredible note in their careers. If you take Frisch out of the equation, the group played 98 seasons and accumulated 106.8 WAR.

 1900s — Average playing career: 12 seasons — War: 38.2

Mgr	Played in MLB	WAR	W	L	W-L%	Plyof App	WSwon	Player/Manager
Miller Huggins HOF	as player	35.7	1413	1134	0.555	6	3	plyr/mgr: 1913-1916
Bill McKechnie HOF	as player	2.5	1896	1723	0.524	4	2	plyr/mgr: 1915

Just two players started their careers in the 1900s and went on to win 900+ games as managers – but boy did they. Combined, Bill McKechnie and Miller Huggins went 3,309-2,857 and won five World Series.

Huggins was, by far, the better player though. Blessed with the knowledge that making an out was a bad thing, Huggins routinely led the league in walks, finishing with a .265/.382/.314 line. Meanwhile McKechnie was good in just two of his 11 seasons. He finished as a .251/.301/.313 hitter. Huggins was also the better manager. His teams finished higher in the standings, had a higher winning percentage and he won more pennants and World Series.

1800s — Average Playing Career: 16.7 seasons — WAR: 399.4

Mgr	Played in MLB	WAR	W	L	W-L%	Plyof App	WSwon	Player/Manager
Cap Anson HOF	as player	99.5	1295	947	0.578	0	0	plyr/mgr: 1875-1897
Fred Clarke HOF	as player	73.4	1602	1181	0.576	2	1	plyr/mgr: 1897-1915
Frank Chance HOF	as player	49.5	946	648	0.593	4	2	plyr/mgr: 1905-1914
John McGraw HOF	as player	49.3	2763	1948	0.586	9	3	plyr/mgr: 1899-1906
Clark Griffith HOF	as player	49	1491	1367	0.522	0	0	plyr/mgr: 1901-1914
Hughie Jennings HOF	as player	46.4	1184	995	0.543	3	0	plyr/mgr: 1907-1918
Ned Hanlon HOF	as player	14.5	1313	1164	0.53	0	0	plyr/mgr: 1889-1892
Wilbert Robinson HOF	as player	12.3	1399	1398	0.5	2	0	plyr/mgr: 1902
Connie Mack HOF	as player	4.5	3731	3948	0.486	8	5	plyr/mgr: 1894-1896
Harry Wright HOF	as player	1	1225	885	0.581	0	0	plyr/mgr: 1871-1877

Five managers in this group had winning percentages above .576 – that’s astounding. As a collective, they were 16,949-14,481. While they had solid regular season success, they brought home just 11 World Series. Of course the first Series wasn’t until 1903 and many of these men began their managerial careers significantly before that.

As players, Cap Anson and Fred Clarke led the way, but Clark Griffith, Hughie Jennings, John McGraw and Frank Chance all had considerable MLB careers. In reality, Wilbert Robinson and Ned Hanlon were merely average players for their respective careers and Harry Wright was the only suboptimal player. This group averaged nearly 40 WAR as players.

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Surprisingly the 900 wins or more managers don’t skew a ton to baseball’s infancy, but are evenly spread out over the first 70 or so years. However, it seems clear that the better players who became 900 win or more managers started their careers in the early days.

Players who became managers and started their career between 1871 and 1919 accumulated 619.2 WAR. Meanwhile players who began their careers between 1925 and 1947 accumulated 234.2 WAR, players who began their careers between 1950 and 1969 accumulated 342.1 WAR and players who began their careers after 1973 accumulated 90.4 WAR. In total, players who started their careers before 1920 and went on to win 900 games as managers accounted for 619.2 WAR, while the rest accounted for 666.7 WAR.

In addition, 22 of the 57 managers with 900+ wins were player-managers at one point. However, 17 of those 22 began their playing careers before 1920.  With players having the chance to play and manage at the same time, it’s apparent that the managers with the most wins in MLB history who were also Hall of Fame type players skewed mightily toward the early parts of baseball history.