Hall of Fame project FAQs

The Hall of Fame project I announced this week is going outstandingly. More than 60 people have said they’ll vote, and as I write these words on Friday evening, 12 people have already gone to the virtual polls including Josh Wilker of Cardboard Gods (the first person to vote– two hours after I sent out the ballot), David Pinto of Baseball Musings, and Mark Simon, a researcher for ESPN New York. I’m excited to see where this thing goes, and I invite anyone who’s interested to email me for a ballot. Anyone is eligible to participate. For more information, go here.

I wanted to take a minute and address some questions. A few people have voiced common themes, and I wanted to offer clarification for any like-minded individuals who haven’t spoken up. I think it’s better to deal with these things sooner rather than later.

Here are some FAQs:

I don’t believe there are 50 players who belong in the Hall of Fame. Can I vote for 12? Please vote for 50. This isn’t going to be a list of 50 players who deserve induction, simply the 50 best who aren’t enshrined. If we wind up with 25 players who have no business near Cooperstown, so be it. I actually think it makes for more interesting writing.

Can I vote for current players? No. Please only vote for anyone who hasn’t played past 2005. We’re going with the same five-year waiting period the Baseball Writers Association of America observes for its Hall of Fame voting. Feel free, though, to vote for anyone who’s played before then. There are many 19th century ballplayers and obscure greats on my 300-player super ballot.

You didn’t include (so-and-so) on the ballot. May I vote for him? Absolutely, write-ins are welcome. So far, it’s been pointed out I forgot Tony Taylor, J.R. Richard, and Vic Power, and some of the submitted ballots have included other write-ins. It makes sense. More than 17,000 men have played in the majors and about 300 are in Cooperstown. I almost certainly forgot several deserving players.

Do players need to have played a certain number of years to qualify? No. While Cooperstown generally requires players to have at least 10 years service time for induction, there are no such constraints here. Bo Jackson, eat your heart out.

When do you need this by? Right now, the deadline is December 1 at 9 p.m. PST, but I’m considering extending voting by one week for an awesome reason I can’t disclose yet. But trust me, if it comes through, our project will get even better. More to follow.

Any player/Any era: Stan Musial

Claim to fame: There’s no better player to write about this Thanksgiving than a baseball legend who turned 90 on Sunday. In his 22 years with the St. Louis Cardinals, Stan Musial established himself as one of the most beloved players in baseball history. Even now, nearly 50 years after his Hall of Fame career ended in 1963, Musial remains an iconic figure. A public campaign for Musial led to an announcement on November 17 that he’ll receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian honor in the country.

In a sense, though, I think Musial is underrated. Sure, there’s the universal adoration in the baseball world and the celebration of his impressive stats, like his .331 lifetime batting average, .976 OPS or 3,630 hits, among the best numbers ever. Still, I don’t know if it’s understood that Musial had one of his best seasons– 1946 when he was National League MVP and led the Cardinals to a World Series title—in a year that favored pitchers. If we transport Musial and his .365 batting average that season to a great year for hitters, he might have hit .400.

Era he might have thrived in: It’s really not a question of what year Musial might have hit .400 in, but how many different ones would have allowed it. Here are five sure bets:
1. 1901 with the Philadelphia Athletics
2. 1925 with the St. Louis Browns
3. 1930 with the Philadelphia Phillies
4. 1936 with the Boston Red Sox
5. 1999 with the Colorado Rockies

Why: First, we have to look at what Musial lost in 1946. Baseball was returning from World War II, and even Musial, who played through most of the war, missed the 1945 season serving in the navy. Returns from long breaks generally favor pitchers, possibly due to timing issues that hitters encounter getting back into gear—just look at the gaudy pitching numbers every April and May. In 1946, this lasted for a season, with each National League team averaging 3.958 runs per game (by contrast, in 1930, the NL average was 5.684 runs.) World War II signaled the shift in baseball from the hitter-happy 1920s and ’30s to a game where less runs were scored, fewer players hit .380, and pitchers came to dominate.

Musial had another thing working against his numbers in 1946. While he played on a championship club, it hit a modest .265 with just three players over .300: Musial, Enos Slaughter, and Whitey Kurowski. Slaughter, like Musial, turned in a stellar season and later made Cooperstown, but in another era, Musial might have had a superior teammate to boost his average higher. After all, Babe Ruth had Lou Gehrig, Ty Cobb had Harry Heilmann, and Willie Mays had Willie McCovey. In the arrangement here, Musial could be teammates with Napoleon Lajoie on the Athletics, George Sisler on the Browns, or Jimmie Foxx on the Red Sox, among other Hall of Famers.

If we plug Musial into any of these teams he thrives. Obscenely. With the help of the stat converter on Baseball-Reference.com, here are his stats from each club:

Year G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BB BA OBP SLG
Real ’46 totals 156 624 124 228 50 20 16 103 7 73 .365 .434 .587
1901 Athletics 138 595 148 245 54 22 18 123 8 78 .412 .482 .667
1925 Browns 155 666 163 272 60 24 20 136 9 87 .408 .479 .661
1930 Phillies 155 686 182 292 64 26 21 152 9 93 .426 .497 .687
1936 Red Sox 155 684 180 290 64 26 21 150 9 93 .424 .495 .686
1999 Rockies 163 730 200 316 70 28 23 167 10 101 .433 .504 .700


(If the Colorado numbers make anyone wonder how well other all-time greats might have done with the ’99 Rockies, check out this post from July.)

There are probably many other teams Musial could have hit .400 on. He was a .400 hitter in everything except his era. In life, he’s been something more.

Any player/Any era is a Thursday feature here that looks at how a player might have done in an era besides his own.

Others in this series: Albert PujolsBarry Bonds, Bob CaruthersDom DiMaggioFritz MaiselGeorge CaseHarmon KillebrewHome Run Baker, Jack Clark, Jackie Robinson, Jimmy Wynn, Joe DiMaggio, Johnny FrederickJosh HamiltonKen Griffey Jr.Nate ColbertPete Rose, Rickey Henderson, Roberto Clemente, Sam Thompson, Sandy KoufaxShoeless Joe JacksonThe Meusel BrothersTy Cobb, Willie Mays

Bobby Knight Calls Dick Groat the “Best” Basketball Player

I’m pleased to present the latest guest post from regular contributor Joe Guzzardi on Dick Groat who, like Dave DeBusschere, Danny Ainge, and a few other people listed below was a baseball player who also played basketball. Or was it the other way around?

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During last week’s pre-game analysis of the 2K Coaches vs. Cancer basketball tournament featuring the University of Maryland and the University of Pittsburgh, Bobby Knight provided ESPN’s color commentary.

After reviewing the strengths of the Terps and Panthers, Knight without prodding said about the Panthers’ broadcaster, “The best basketball player in Madison Square Garden is Dick Groat.” When Bobby Knight calls someone the “best basketball player” that’s serious flattery.

While the 70-year-old Knight didn’t say so the 80-year-old Groat, an All-American baseball and basketball player at Duke University, may have been one of his childhood heroes. In 1952, Groat won the U.P.I. National Player of the Year award after averaging more than 25 points per game. On the strength of his collegiate success, Groat was the fourth round draft choice of the Ft. Wayne (now Detroit) Pistons and averaged a respectable 12 points per game during his only season.

Groat is one of twelve athletes who played baseball and basketball professionally. The others are Chuck Connors, Gene Conley, Bill Sharman, Howie Schultz, Ron Reed, Danny Ainge, Frankie Baumholtz, Dave DeBusschere, Mark Hendrickson and Cotton Nash.

But also in 1952, straight off the Duke campus, Groat was signed by the Pittsburgh Pirates’ Branch Rickey. As much as the Pittsburgh native loved basketball, Groat’s dream had always been to play for the Pirates. Since summer is baseball season, basketball had to wait.

One of only a small number of players who never spent a day in the minor leagues, shortstop Groat was instantly productive (.284) for the horrible 1952 Pirates (42-112).

After a two year stint in the Army, Groat gave up his NBA career to focus on baseball. Gradually, as the Pirates added Bill Mazeroski, Roberto Clemente and pitchers Vernon Law, Bob Friend and El Roy Face developed, the Pirates worked their way up the National League standings.

By 1960, their World Series championship year, Groat was the Pirates’ captain, the National League’s batting champion and the Most Valuable Player. Although the Pirates expected to win several more titles, it was not to be. In 1961, the team fell to sixth place 75-79. Although the Pirates rallied to a 93-68 record in 1962, General Manager Joe Brown to the surprise of baseball insiders, traded three of his starting four infielders within the span of a week: first baseman Dick Stuart, third baseman Don Hoak and Groat.

The St. Louis Cardinals sent pitcher Don Cardwell to the Bucs for Groat. The trade favored Pirates. In his first season as a Cardinals, Groat hit .315. And in 1964, he led the Cards to the World Series title. Groat was also a two-time Cardinals’ All Star.

In his four years as a Pirates, Cardwell posted a 33-33 record with a 3.38 ERA.

Groat, who longed to one day manage the Pirates, was so disappointed by the trade that he broke off all ties with the team until 1990, the thirtieth anniversary of the 1960 upset of the New York Yankees.

Today, Groat is a regular around Pittsburgh. An outstanding golfer, an announcer for Pitt basketball and a frequent guest at Pirates’ events who never turns down autograph requests, Groat is an all-around great guy. As Knight called him, “a gentleman”.

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Joe Guzzardi belongs to the Society for American Baseball Research as well as the Internet Baseball Writers Association of America. Email him at guzzjoe@yahoo.com

Does he belong in the Hall of Fame? Billy Martin

Claim to fame: The fiery manager of the Bronx Zoo New York Yankees in the 1970s, Martin also did well in stops at Minnesota, Detroit, Texas, and Oakland. He thrived wherever he went, having just three losing seasons in 19 years and going 1,253-1,013 overall. Despite this, he is remembered perhaps as much for his off-field antics, his many firings at the hands of George Steinbrenner (they even once did a commercial making light of it), and his alcohol-related death in 1989 at 61.

Current Hall of Fame eligibility: Martin is on this year’s Veterans Committee ballot, along with Steinbrenner and two of their best pitchers in those years, Ron Guidry and Tommy John. The committee will announce its voting results at the annual winter meetings in Orlando, Florida on December 6.

Does he belong in the Hall of Fame? My short answer is yes. Martin did well in too many stops, and his record should speak louder than his questionable character (on a side note, was it really terribly worse than many men already enshrined?) The same should be said of Dick Allen, Dave Parker, and Albert Belle, in my book. But then, controversial figures generally have a hard time getting into Cooperstown. I’d vote for all four of these men, but I don’t know how many other people would.

Traditionally, the committee, in its various forms over the years and the Hall of Fame in general prefers establishment-friendly candidates. It’s why I figured Whitey Herzog would get voted in last year after he, Martin, Danny Murtaugh, and Gene Mauch appeared on the ballot. It’s the same reason I think Steve Garvey will get in this year. When in doubt, Hall of Fame voting is generally conservative, particularly with the Veterans Committee in recent years, and I suppose arguments could be made for or against this.

All this being said, if Martin were to get into the Hall of Fame, he’d have a spot in one of its most exclusive wings. This summer, Herzog became just the 20th person enshrined as a manager. Men like Connie Mack, John McGraw, and Casey Stengel are there. Al Dark, Bill Rigney, Charlie Grimm and many others are not. There are so many solid managers not in Cooperstown that a few months back I suggested there be a hybrid wing for skippers who also played.

Technically, Martin could qualify for this too since he played 11 years in the majors, making the American League All Star team in 1956 and serving as one of Mickey Mantle’s running partners on the Yankees of the Stengel-glory-years 1950s. Still, I think Martin’s managerial credentials should be sufficient to earn him a plaque.

Does he belong in the Hall of Fame? is a Tuesday feature here.

Others in this series: Al OliverAlbert BelleBert BlylevenCecil TravisChipper JonesDan QuisenberryDave ParkerDon Mattingly, Don NewcombeGeorge SteinbrennerJack MorrisJoe CarterJohn SmoltzKeith HernandezLarry WalkerMaury WillsMel HarderPete Browning, Rafael Palmeiro, Rocky Colavito, Ron Guidry, Steve GarveyThurman MunsonTim Raines, Will Clark

Vote on the 50 best baseball players not in the Hall of Fame

Anyone who reads this Web site regularly may know that I write about the Hall of Fame fairly often, at least on a weekly basis and that my first post on the subject was a list in May 2009 of the 10 best players not in Cooperstown. Since I wrote that post, I’ve found many, many more deserving players, and now, I’d like to expand to something bigger.

I want a list of the 50 greatest players who aren’t enshrined, and rather than simply base this on my opinion or career WAR rankings (or some other trendy stat that will be outdated in a few years), I want to try something different: I’d like this to be based on the votes of people who frequent this Web site and other baseball writers.

I’ll keep a master tally of all the votes and base rankings off of which players get the most votes. I want at least 50-100 people to vote. The more votes and the broader the range of voters, the better the players will be separated in the rankings. Anyone is eligible to vote, and I would be happy to link in the post to any fellow baseball writer who participates.

So here’s how this will work: I’m compiling a super ballot of 300 non-enshrined players that I intend to send out this evening  (write-in candidates welcome, too.) Voting will last until December 1 at 9 p.m. PST. I’ll post the results on December 3, ahead of the Veterans Committee’s announcement on December 6 of who it will be inducting in 2011 and the Baseball Writers Association of America’s announcement in January of its picks.

If anyone reading would like to participate, please send me an email at thewomack@gmail.com or leave a comment here and I will email a ballot this evening. And if anyone happens to read this after today, please feel free to reach out to me. As long as it’s before December 1, I have no problem providing a ballot.

Let the games begin

I’m pleased to present the latest guest from Doug Bird, who recently began contributing Sunday posts here. Today, Doug writes about an ever-fun offseason topic: trades and free agency.

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No, not the real games, or maybe they are come to think of it.  It’s the offseason and that brings silly trade rumors, players crying about their lousy $15 million per season for four years offer, owners hiring the same old merry go round of managers and GMs and claiming that every player in their minor league system is a potential superstar.

Most writers for the more popular baseball publications are at it again-spreading ridiculous trade rumors as if they were talking about the upcoming fantasy baseball season or trading bubble gum cards with six year olds. Unfortunately, while  occupying their time with these “I have a column due today and I have to write something” stories, they often miss real and legitimate possibilities. They continually fall for the “no one is untouchable on this team if the right offer came along” feeds from various GMs and owners. Case in point this week: the Justin Upton trade rumor. Few teams wouldn’t want to have this star player as part of their roster and it is obvious to me that the Diamondbacks have no real interest in trading their best player. We hadn’t considered trading our best player but hey,  give me four or five of your top players and I think we can work something out.  If Arizona had put Upton on the market initially, perhaps these rumors would have some merit, but that was obviously not the case here.  Yes, Arizona need a lot of improvement  in most areas but giving away your future is not the way any competent GM would choose to go. No one is going to meet their demands but many columnists insist on quoting rival GMs complaining the demands for Upton are ridiculous.

We have players turning down huge contract offers, money which even in today’s inflated market are eye opening, with their agents comparing them to Babe Ruth in his prime. Of course, these players and agents are well aware that certain owners will pay these inflated contracts and have a history of massive overpayments.  These same owners  discover that trading these overvalued and under productive players two years from now is next to impossible without having to pay his salary as well.  Florida traded Dan Uggla, a good power hitter if nothing else, and a player who put up these numbers in a pitchers park, because of his salary demands, only to sign a mediocre catcher who had a career year in 2010 in a hitters park, (John Buck), to a contract even sillier. Adrian Beltre is once again asking for a multiyear contract and owners are, once again, listening and bidding on his services. Beltre is a very good player in a market where good third basemen are few and far between, but– and a very large but here– everyone from owners to the casual fan knows his history. Time and time again, Beltre puts in a lackadaisical effort, puts up poor numbers, until the walk year of his contract. He then becomes the player the owner hopes he would have been all those previous seasons. Yet, someone this offseason will give him what he wants.

The end of the 2010 season saw an unprecedented number of managerial openings.  Many of the old guard stepped down, making for a sad but interesting changing of the guard. Many years of baseball expertise and experience retired or fell by the wayside and it will be interesting to see if owners and GMs will give opportunities to long serving non major league managerial personnel or simply follow the old rule of hiring a name manager who had failed in other organizations. The Cubs hiring of Mike Quade and the Blue Jays hiring of John Farrell  are examples of how thing should be done. The Pirates hiring of Clint Hurdle and the Mariners hiring of Eric Wedge are merely more of the same. The Dodgers have hired a bench coach with no managerial experience and another former Yankee legend and the Mets can’t seem hire anyone. Everyone seems to want the fiery Bobby Valentine yet he doesn’t want any of them-but he wants to return to big league managing. Japan doesn’t have a big league team it seems just yet.

The GM meetings seem, every year, to be merely an excuse to garner a few days in the warm sunshine. No one wants to trade their minor league players who, judging by the teams own personnel decisions, aren’t ready for the majors or aren’t good enough. Yet few are willing to part with any of them for a genuine proven big leaguer. The publicity machines continually spit out features about this can’t miss and that can’t miss yet rarely are they deemed good enough for the bigs except in the worst organizations.

Spend big money on the farm system yet rarely use it or spend  even bigger money on free agents. I guess it’s a case of who blinks first-or who believes Scott Boras and who doesn’t.

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Email Doug Bird at d.bird@rogers.com

Names from the Cleveland Buckeye’s Past: Sam Jethroe and Eddie Klepp (Who’s He?)

I’m pleased to present this guest post from Joe Guzzardi, who regularly contributes Wednesday and Saturday articles here. Due to technical issues, today’s post is a little later than usual but worth the wait. It highlights Sam Jethroe, a forgotten Negro League great, and Eddie Klepp, who also played in that league– as a white pitcher.

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Last week, at our SABR Forbes Field Chapter fall meeting, Stephanie Liscio, president of the neighboring Cleveland Jack Graney Chapter, talked about her new book, Integrating Cleveland Baseball.

Cleveland, whose Indians was one of baseball’s first integrated teams, with the addition of Larry Doby on July 2, 1947, had to cope with their city rivals, the Negro American League Buckeyes. The two teams competed for the African-American fan’s support.

Liscio, a Ph.D. candidate at Case Western Reserve University, chronicled the dismal history of Cleveland’s Negro League baseball teams. All failed until the Buckeyes which in 1945 became the world champion Negro League team and won the Negro American League pennant in 1947. One of Liscio’s major focuses is the role played by the African-American Cleveland newspaper, the Call & Post, efforts to integrate Major League baseball.

During her presentation, Liscio talked about Eddie Klepp, a white pitcher who in 1946 joined the Buckeyes as part of an experiment (some say a stunt) in integrating Negro League baseball.

Klepp turned out to be an unfortunate choice. His career was limited to a few innings pitched and was sandwiched in between two stretches for larceny and burglary.

Another Buckeye made a more lasting and positive impression. Before joining the major leagues in 1950, Sam “The Jet” Jethroe was the premier base stealer in the Negro League and led the league in batting average in 1944 and 1945. In six seasons with the Buckeyes, Jethroe had a .342 career batting average and was been selected to the East-West All-Star game four times.

When Jethroe joined the Boston Braves in 1950, he was named the National League Rookie of the Year. By that time, Jethroe was at least 32 and remains the oldest player to win the Rookie of the Year award. In two of his three seasons in the majors, he led the NL in stolen bases. In the first year Jethroe accomplished this, when he posted 35 steals in 1950, he fell just shy of swiping 10 percent of the bases in his league, a feat only a handful of ballplayers have accomplished.

By 1952, Jethroe’s production dropped dramatically. Although he rallied with a .307 batting average in Toledo in 1953, Jethroe’s career was over. Signed by the Pittsburgh Pirates in 1954, Jethroe appeared in only two games.

At the end of his major league career, he had accumulated a .261 average, 49 home runs, 181 RBIs and 98 stolen bases in 442 games.

I recommend adding Integrating Cleveland Baseball to your library.

Liscio has a limited number of discounted copies available. Contact her directly. Otherwise you can order from Amazon or the publisher, McFarland.

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Joe Guzzardi belongs to the Society for American Baseball Research as well as the Internet Baseball Writers Association of America. Email him at guzzjoe@yahoo.com

The Name Game

I’m pleased to present this guest post from Gerry Garte, who recently began contributing here. Today, Gerry writes about the many names for the Florida Marlins’ home park. As a bonus, in honor of Thanksgiving, Gerrys closes with a Baseball: Past and Present first: a poem. Long ago, sportswriters like Grantland Rice published books of verse, but that kind of thing has been curiously absent from the blogosphere, sports media in general, and definitely this Web site.

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It was a couple months ago when I first saw the huge Sun Life Stadium sign. I had gone to see the Marlins face the visiting Cardinals.

About 23 years before that, the stadium had opened as Joe Robbie Stadium, new home of the Miami Dolphins in northwest Dade County.  Joe Robbie was owner of the Dolphins when they joined the American Football League in 1966. In 1970, he hired Don Shula away from the Baltimore Colts.

Unlike most stadiums that have been built in the past 30 years, Joe Robbie Stadium was built solely through private funding.

At the time, my parents lived about seven or eight miles directly east of the stadium. When the Dolphins had a night game at home, a roaring stadium crowd could often be heard at my folks’ house.

Mr. Robbie had the stadium built to also accommodate a future MLB club. In 1990, he passed away. But three years later, after the Marlins gained admittance to the National League, they played their baseball at Joe Robbie.

In 1996, the name-changing craziness started. Since then, the stadium has had six different names: Pro Player Park, Pro Player Stadium, Dolphins Stadium, Dolphin Stadium, Land Shark Stadium and now Sun Life Stadium.

No other current ballpark in Major League Baseball has had near as many name changes.

Here’s a quick rundown of current baseball stadiums that have endured name changes:

Angels:  Anaheim Field to Edison International Field of Anaheim to Angel Stadium of Anaheim

A’s:  Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum to Network Associates Coliseum to McAfee Coliseum back to Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum

Blue Jays:  Skydome to Rogers Centre

Diamondbacks:  Bank One Ballpark to Chase Field

Giants: Pacific Bell Park to SBC Park to AT&T Park (Editor’s note: The Simpsons recently made light of this in the SABR-themed episode, “Moneybart.”)

Indians:  Jacobs Field to Progressive Field

Royals:  Royals Stadium to Kauffman Stadium

White Sox:  new Comiskey Park to U.S. Cellular Field

In 2012, the Marlins will be moving to their own stadium, located at the downtown site of the former Orange Bowl, which housed the original Dolphins and the University of Miami. Hopefully, whatever name is chosen for the stadium (currently Marlins Ballpark) will stick.

I know money talks when stadium name-changes are discussed. But for my money and my memory, it’s best to keep name changes to a minimum.

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In celebration of the great American holiday, Thanksgiving, I offer a poem:

Giving Thanks

The coast of New England, a harvest grown strong
The pilgrims of Plymouth work hard and work long.
A festival of feast, for thanksgiving they pray
Gathered in worship, with faith they did stay.
America’s birth, its patriotic splendor
The fourth of our Thursdays in the month of November.
–Gerry Garte
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Gerry Garte belongs to the Society for American Baseball Research. Email him at garte@comcast.net

Any player/Any era: Willie Mays

What he did: After last week’s column where I took a non-Hall of Famer, Jack Clark and saw how he would compare to Joe DiMaggio by playing his career, I went another direction. Willie Mays is one of the greatest players ever, possibly the greatest– I rate him second to Babe Ruth. What may not be appreciated about Mays is he played much of his career in an era ruled by pitchers. A .302 hitter lifetime, Mays might have batted .330 in Ruth’s time. And if Mays were matched season-for-season with Barry Bonds, baseball might have a different home run king.

Era he might have thrived in: We’ll plug Mays into every season of Bonds’ career from 1986 through 2007, since their career spans line up almost perfectly, and we’ll give Mays credit for the time he lost 1952-53 for Korean War service. By doing this, Mays easily overtakes Ruth in home runs, and depending how one looks at it, might have enough to beat out Hank Aaron’s 755 home runs or Bonds’ 762.

Why: There are two big reasons Mays sees a boost. First, he gains two solid seasons of production for the time he missed with Korea. Second, his career peak occurs 1996 through 2000, one of the greatest offensive periods in baseball history, instead of 1961 through 1965, one of the bleakest. He also plays his entire career with 162-game seasons, instead of just from 1961 on. Bottom line, in a better time for hitters, Mays might have arguably the best offensive numbers in baseball history. I also have greater appreciation now for Mays’ real numbers, which were hard-won.

There are a few ways to forecast Mays’ numbers here. Lately, I have been using the stat converter on Baseball-Reference.com which can adjust numbers between different eras. Using this tool, I went year by year for Mays, converting the 1951 New York Giants to the 1986 Pittsburgh Pirates, the 1952 Giants to the 1987 Pirates, and so on.

Here’s how it comes out for Mays:

Year G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BB BA
86 PIT (51) 126 477 58 127 22 5 20 66 7 57 .266
87 PIT (52) 147 544 116 170 27 7 34 101 17 76 .313
88 PIT (53) 147 526 92 152 25 6 31 84 15 69 .291
89 PIT (54) 159 570 103 181 31 12 38 95 7 61 .318
90 PIT (55) 160 598 114 182 18 13 50 118 24 77 .304
91 PIT (56) 159 595 99 170 27 8 36 83 40 68 .286
92 PIT (57) 159 591 103 183 25 19 33 89 36 71 .310
93 SF (58) 160 636 128 224 32 12 32 102 34 84 .352
94 SF (59) 111 426 93 135 32 3 26 78 20 49 .317
95 SF (60) 142 561 109 185 28 12 28 106 24 60 .330
96 SF (61) 161 598 137 184 33 3 42 131 19 85 .308
97 SF (62) 162 622 132 190 36 5 50 143 18 79 .305
98 SF (63) 157 612 133 203 35 8 42 119 9 71 .332
99 SF (64) 157 595 140 188 23 10 52 129 21 90 .316
00 SF (65) 155 566 130 187 22 3 55 123 9 81 .330
01 SF (66) 152 554 101 161 30 4 38 105 5 71 .291
02 SF (67) 141 494 91 136 23 2 23 77 7 54 .275
03 SF (68) 147 522 111 170 23 6 27 103 14 79 .326
04 SF (69) 117 417 74 128 19 3 15 68 6 55 .307
05 SF (70) 139 484 94 145 15 2 29 83 5 82 .300
06 SF (71) 136 446 102 142 30 6 22 76 29 141 .318
07 SF (72) 92 267 45 76 14 1 10 28 5 75 .285
TOTAL 3186 11701 2305 3619 574 150 733 2107 371 1635 .309
REAL 2992 10881 2062 3283 523 140 660 1903 338 1464 .302


(On a side note, I arrived at Mays’ 1952 and 1953 totals by taking his 162-game averages if he’d played every year of his career on the 1987 and 1988 Pirates, respectively. I then converted to 147-game seasons, the average number of contests Mays gets in here. It’s a conservative estimate if Mays keeps healthy, which he mostly did in early seasons. On another side note, Mays strikes out 1,612 times in this version of his career.)

The 2,305 runs would be most all-time, the 733 home runs third, and the 2,107 RBI also third, impressive totals all. I had some questions if the stats were dependent on Bonds being in the lineup with Mays. While there are some interesting writing possibilities on them as teammates, that isn’t what this column is about, and I wanted a way to swap out Bonds for Mays. I didn’t want Mays’ numbers simply to seem like a byproduct of playing besides Bonds. Thus, I emailed Cyril Morong, a stats whiz and an occasional commenter here and the kind of person who might know this.

Cyril wasn’t sure, though he offered something when I asked if Mays could out-homer Bonds. Cyril wrote:

I think he has a good chance. In his career, his HR% was 6.07. The league average during his time was 2.42. So that is a ratio of 2.51. During Bonds’ time, the NL HR% was 2.8%. That times 2.51 is 7.02. If he had that % during his career of 10881 ABs, he gets 763

I clarified that in this arrangement, Mays has 11,701 at bats, and Cyril ran new calculations and found Mays finishing with 822 home runs. Assuming Mays would have done this free of steroids (which I’m saying he would), maybe there’s hope another hitter like him sets a real record in the right era.

Any player/Any era is a Thursday feature here that looks at how a player might have done in an era besides his own.

Others in this series: Albert PujolsBarry Bonds, Bob CaruthersDom DiMaggioFritz MaiselGeorge CaseHarmon KillebrewHome Run Baker, Jack Clark, Jackie Robinson, Jimmy Wynn, Joe DiMaggio, Johnny FrederickJosh HamiltonKen Griffey Jr.Nate ColbertPete Rose, Rickey Henderson, Roberto Clemente, Sam Thompson, Sandy KoufaxShoeless Joe JacksonThe Meusel BrothersTy Cobb

My Evening With Bob Costas, MLB Network and the 1960′s Pirates

I’m pleased to present the latest guest post from Joe Guzzardi, a regular contributor here. Today, Joe writes about attending the premier showing for recently uncovered footage of Game 7 of the 1960 World Series.

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The stage: Forbes Field, October 13, 1960
The scene: Seventh World Series game, bottom of the first inning, Pittsburgh Pirates at bat against New York Yankee starter “Bullet” Bob Turley.

In the top of the first, Cy Young award winner Vernon Law retired the Yankees, one-two-three. Bobby Richardson lined out to shortstop Dick Groat, Tony Kubek popped out to Bill Mazeroski and Roger Maris fouled out to Don Hoak.

Before Turley, who had won game two, threw a pitch Casey Stengel had ordered double barrel action in the bull pen with lefty Bobby Shantz and right hander Ralph Terry furiously warming up.

Whether Turley fell apart when he saw Stengel perched on the top of the dugout stairs to yank him at the slightest sign of trouble or just didn’t have it, he came out faster than a sore tooth in the second. New hurler: Bill Stafford. (See Stengel poised to give Turley the hook here.)

While the game is most famous for Mazeroski’s ninth inning home run, having two pitchers warm up before the starter has thrown a pitch may be without precedent.

How Stengel mishandled his pitchers was one of dozens of insights, this one provided by Richardson, during MLB.com’s premier showing at Pittsburgh’s Byham Theater of the lost Bing Crosby tape of the famous seventh game.

Richardson, the lone Yankee present, Dick Groat and Bill Virdon were on stage with host Bob Costas. In the audience were catchers Hal Smith and Bob Oldis, Bob Friend, El Roy Face, Joe Christopher and Law. All including special guests Franco Harris, Nathaniel Crosby and archivist Robert Bader got rousing applause throughout the evening. Smith, whose two out, three run homer in the bottom of the eighth briefly put the Pirates ahead 9-7, got a standing ovation.

Ironically Mazeroski, recovering in the hospital from kidney stones, was absent.

For fifty years, baseball historians have been unable to explain why Stengel overlooked Whitey Ford, one of the most successful World Series pitchers in the game’s annals, in favor of journeyman Art Ditmar for the crucial Game One.

Ford was certainly not tired. His last regular season outing was on September 28 when he pitched five innings against the Washington Senators. By October 5, Game One, Ford had six days rest.

Stengel’s fatal choice of Ditmar killed any chances the Yankees had to win the series. Shelled in the first and fifth games, Ditmar’s series line was: 0-2; ERA 21.60

Ford, who in a normal rotation would have started games one, four and seven, ended up pitching complete game shutouts in the third and sixth contests. Ford’s line: 2-0, ERA 0.00

Richardson, when asked directly by Costas why Stengel chose Ditmar, could not explain it. And again, when Ford warmed up briefly in the seventh game but never got the call, Costas asked why. Richardson’s reply: “Good question.”

Pirates’ announcer Bob Prince shared the game call with the Yankees’ Mel Allen. Both worked alone but brilliantly and never missed a beat. The actual game only took 2:36 but the edited version in black and white with no graphics, no replays, no commercials and which segues immediately from one inning to the next runs just over two hours.

The batters didn’t step out of the box or wear batting gloves; the pitchers worked fast.

MLB.com will broadcast the game nationally on December 15. The two-DVD set will be available for purchase December 14th and includes the game and the Pittsburgh pre-game tape that includes all of Costas’ witty exchanges with the Pirates and plenty of his own entertaining insights.

I’ve already placed my order!

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Joe Guzzardi belongs to the Society for American Baseball Research, as well as the Internet Baseball Writers Association of America. Email him at guzzjoe@yahoo.com